1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby Naked Clarke on Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:08 pm

Keep it. It should only need a cap job. I have note of 11 5D6 Bassman amps (including yours). The ones I have seen use the 7926 Triad PT whether made in November or December and regardless of the low or high serialization. That CTS trannie is the first that I have seen in a Fender.
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby Inventour on Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:15 am

NC,
Good advice.

Topscore,
I would also try to keep the amp if you could.

What are the Jensen speakers you have for the 3 matching?
The 220xxx Numbers, then the CXXX number after it and are they P10R
or P10Q Speakers. Do the speakers have a ST Code on the rims?,

I may have a Jensen speaker close to your matching 3, give me the info and I will
check my 80 Jensen speaker collection.

If you get the 4th speaker to match it will raise the value a lot, if it's a week or a few
weeks off it will still be good.

Where do you have good detailed photos of the amp for use to look at?

Have fun with your amp, and make sure you only let a top tech work on it,
people will ofter replace resistors if they are off just a little and the next thing you know
he ruined your amp by replacing most of them. Resistors drift and have a puls or minus 10%-15%
sometimes, it's no big deal.

All the best,
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby Naked Clarke on Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:29 am

I know the top two are kosher:
220443 P10R C5636
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby Naked Clarke on Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:05 pm

The numbers and order are sketchy at best and the information only as good as what was reported or that could be visually determined. Meaning I have not been able to physically inspect all of these early amps and mistakes could have been passed along.

1. I have noted 5D6's at the low end of the range as well as 5D6's with s/n's of 0780 and 0783.

2. Remember that there was a TV model Bassman and then a wide panel Bassman Amp before the 4 x 10. When circuit or major style revisions were made to the various Fender models sometimes new serial runs would be started from 0001 or 0100, etc. Other times they continued with the existing chronology. So the first built 5D6 amps having higher s/n's makes perfect sense to me. I suspect that the serialization was initially carried forward from the 5B6 or 5C6, if there was such a model. This takes us back to the problem of not having hands on proximity to these early amps and the lack of any schematics to compare them to. We have seen enough factory tinkering with the well known, documented circuits to suspect that differences in the circuit or chassis could have precipitated a new serial run during December 1954.

3. I have only seen Triad transformers in these early Bassman Amps.
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby mylescdavis on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:41 am

Picture posting is pretty much the same on all Internet forums. Get a photo hosting account set up - photobucket is the one I use, it's free, as are most of the them - upload your photos to your account there, then paste the links into your post here. It's easier to do than describe.

Fender is pretty well known for substituting all sorts of stuff. For every rule, there's an exception, particularly with rules you read about on the Internet, like what amp sounds better than what amp, etc.

Enjoy your Bassman, learn as much as you can, but keep a grain or two of salt handy.
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby Naked Clarke on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:37 pm

"Thank you again for working on this new train of thought for the Fender History Museum"

I must have missed something. Where did this come from?
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby mylescdavis on Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:59 am

Toppscore wrote:Hi. Two things:
Also, I posted on VintageAmp that I am very interested in purchasing a 30w Triad Power Transformer for the 4x10 Bassman. Currently, my 1954 Fender Bassman amp has a 30w Chicago Standard Transformer that is 1954 era correct (I believe). After much research, I understand that Fender used transformers in the early 1950s from the following companies: Triad Transformer, Better Coil, Chicago Standard Transformer, StanCor Transformers, Woodward-Schumacher Transformers.

Since the Output Transformer and the Choke are original Triads, getting a 30w Triad would be my first choice.


Maybe I missed something in the thread, but if the Chicago PT is original, keep it. Fender's open-door policy on transformers is well-known, so don't replace it just because Triad's are better-known, if it's original.

Now, if it's a replacement, never mind, and I'll go back to my remedial reading class.
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby Mitch Roberts on Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:54 pm

Pardon my cynicism, but this whole pumping for info on the your amp and the hyperbole of your excitement for it's continuously increasing rarity sure smells like someone orchestrating a pump and dump. No doubt the subject of this discussion is one very cool amp, but I remain - respectfully - doubtful as to the true motives of the OP. Just sayin...
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby mylescdavis on Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:08 am

My head hurts just looking at the colors. :shock:
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby Mitch Roberts on Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:21 pm

Holy crap, where in the world do you find the time and inspiration for such a stream of consciousness? It's not like you found the Mona Lisa in your garage. And I'm not "mad" or "angry," I'm just skeptical. And of course I didn't labor over your every word. It already made my hair hurt just skimming it. :roll:

So you have a nice old amp with a replaced transformer. That's how I see it. You can do research to your heart's content, but any potential buyer is gonna cut through the verbosity and make a judgement on what they think it's worth based on their own observation and knowledge. They will care nothing about your tortured rationale for how that power tranny could be, might be, or wannabe original. Since you supposedly want to sell it, why not just put it on ebay and let the market decide what it's worth for you. OR... like several have already suggested, just keep it and enjoy it for all the exciting reasons you have taken so much bandwidth to enumerate. Sell something else out of your vast warehouse of forgotten amp treasures if you need to raise cash. If you don't need to raise cash, why don't you just donate it to some Fender museum and take a tax write off.

Rock on. :jam:
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby jazzcat97 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:39 pm

TS, fyi: "One 1x10” 1961 Celestion Speaker 220122 (P100, C7272)" - this is a "Jensen" speaker like your others. 220 is the code for Jensen.

found the Wiki quote you mentioned, and put it below so the rest of us can understand your state of mind:

"The first 4x10 Bassman amplifiers started with a batch of prototypes in November and December 1954, model 5D6. No schematic for the 5D6 circuit have ever been found, and only 6 of these early examples have been found to have survived. The earliest serial number known to still exist is 0013 (Frank Roy), but 0035 (Albert Tally), 0075 (Jim Cornett), 0077 (Peter Tate), 0780 (sold on eBay Nov 2006), and 0745 (Walter Horton) also exist. These rare few are known to sound better than the revered 1959 5F6-A circuit, and are fetching prices in excess of $15000 USD."

$15,000 USD is for a dead MINT tweed cab, and a 100% - 100% ALL ORIGINAL chassis and speakers...and then you'd have to find a buyer who thinks your 2 input 5D6, sounds better than 4 input 5F6, most likely at a guitar show with an A/B box.

the only way for you to be sure what you have - is to get it appraised. $50. Gruhns' been sellin bassmans since 1966 - or any other long time vintage dealers. in California like Norms, or even Leo's where you bought it. Then if the appraisal confirms your amp is worth Big$$, put it on Gbase.com and settle in for the long, long wait...

everyone here has a 50's tweed amp that's missing original parts. my 51 Super's missing an OT. Good luck with your search! you have the advantage that you are in California, and can travel to the hamfests where some old guy who used to work for Triad probably has a card table full of the PT's and OT's we are all wishing to find...
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby P-Dawg on Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:55 pm

Toppscore wrote:Thanks, Mitch. If I mistook your comments as negative, angry & vindictive from your first posted comment, my mistake. I am sorry. But, your second comment (in my opinion) is much more helpful to me. Thank you.

Per your current comments, I suppose I have a "nice old amp". If that is the case, then before last month, I suppose I simply had an "old" amp. But, besides you, I am excited and most everyone in contact with me is excited and willing to help and share. Yes, I write more words than you or the average poster. That is just me ~ who I am. Differences make the world go 'round :)

As mentioned several times, I have gone from attempting to get an idea as to what I needed to do to sell the "nice old amp", to being on a mission to get the amp period correct, keep and play it. I have and will continue to do research to my heart's content. I will be asking questions from the stand point of a new Bassman hobbyist. I have been having a general blast the past month and the past week on The Vintage Amp Forum. Thank you for being "softer" and a bit less skeptical :) Take care. Toppscore.


Maybe you should start a blog. They're free, you know. :cheers:
If you believe in coincidence, you're not looking close enough-Joe Leaphorn
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby jazzcat97 on Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:04 am

hey Toppscore,
FYI: Found an old 2009 post on the Steel Guitar forum for your 5D6 research, and for the other guys interested…
these old country steel guitar guys are in a different orbit...twang city! 5D6 = "With a Tele it was a tone to die for."
page 1, chassis restoration 5D6 #0035; page 2, there are great pictures of 5D6 #0035’s cab restoration by Gregg at Vintage-Amp Restoration in St Louis, MO…good stuff!
Jazz
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

LifeSupport.jpg


http://foxvintageamps.com/classic_green_005.htm 5D6 tribute amp
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby P-Dawg on Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:01 pm

Toppscore wrote:Thanks, P-Dawg. Maybe a blog would be good for discussing 1954 5D6 Bassmans,
and the differences between the 5D6 (vs) 5B6,5E6 & 5F6 Bassmans. That would be cool.

P-Dwag, for my current post, I am simply on a journy discovering, sharing & communicating about the 5D6 Bassman amp's history and the various possibilites of owning it, playing it, making it period correct with two parts, and suggestions towards the history of Fender's 1954 5D6 Bassman's parts used during the two months of hand built production. This is the subject I enjoy the most ~ that Fender could not & would not have producted & designed all eleven known 5D6's 100% exactly the same way, . . . . .
much less have all the 1954 175(+) 5D6 Bassmans built & designed to be exactly 100% the same way. Toppscore


Most people do not share your enthusiasm because they don't own 'em and are not obsessed with the minutia of tweed Bassmans as some folks around here seem to be.

It's an amp, fer chrissakes, not a Ming vase. Play your guitar.

Sorry. I turned 63 yesterday. :cheers:
If you believe in coincidence, you're not looking close enough-Joe Leaphorn
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Re: 1954 Fender 5D6 DK 4x10 Bassman Amp ~ Need HELP!

Postby jazzcat97 on Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:44 pm

Toppscore,
Can you post a picture of your amp 5D6 #0769 with the upper back panel off? Would be interesting to compare your chassis pix to the Steel Guitar forum amp 5D6 #0035 pix…
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